On Friday, the Federal Aviation Administration issued a license for SpaceX to launch the first orbital test of Starship, the largest rocket in human history, as soon as this Monday, April 17th.
Thank you for this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I take my kids all the time to Brownsville. My kids go to field trips there all the time too.
Now I fear for their safety. I don't think the Cameron County government and the Texas State government can be trusted from now on. If either of my kids get injured, or even die, because of their dangerous and irresponsible tests, it will be difficult for me to seek justice for them. This greed over human lives mentality needs to stop.
I'll trust NASA, but SpaceX and Tesla have both proven that they're not trustworthy. Hell, most corporations prove they're not trustworthy on the daily.
If there is a comforting news from yesterday's launch, SpaceX has a long way to go before they reengineer and launch the next vehicle from that launch pad. And they are certainly going to try to prevent a bomb drop experience as that might have been a factor in the mission failure. LabPadre reports that bowling ball size concrete chunks were flying far from launch site.
Sad. We expect our government to simply enforce laws that are there for the benefit of all only to see them ignore the duty and the harm that will be caused. Super frustrating. Also frustrating that the average American would have no idea of the issues you just presented let alone care.
I came upon this informative analysis: https://www.space.com/every-spacex-starship-explosion-lessons-learned Somehow SpaceX seems to think catastrophic failure is the only sure way to success. My understanding of modern engineering is that we have reached a level of sophistication in analysis and simulation that we don't have to endure hundreds of catastrophic failures before getting a working design. You don't see dozens of aircraft crash before they start flying passengers on a new model of aircraft. Boeing 777 and Airbus 380 did not have a single hull loss accident. (The only B777 losses are by a suicidal pilot and missile hit).
I do find this argument fascinating but, in fairness to SpaceX, it seems like the Falcon 9 program really benefited from fast iteration that included some really bad failures along the way.
That said, some of the arguments I've seen justifying the decision to not use a deluge or trench system don't seem very honest given how much we do know about building suitable launch sites. Thanks for the comment
Complex space vehicle dynamics may be a difficult subject needing experimentation but impact of huge fire on concrete is something anyone can learn by talking to a few firefighters. It greatly diminishes my respect for their engineering if they can't understand what a giant hot fire, powerful hot gases exhausting at supersonic speeds can do to a block of concrete sitting still.
Like you predicted, the facility got basically destroyed today. The tanks are dented, rocks where thrown around and even concrete rained on the city nearby
I am somewhat mystified by all the talk of "this was a successful launch, because we can collect data" etc., When the launch pad looks like a Daisy Cutter bomb has been dropped on it, it is weird to call it a success. Even NASA administrator congratulated the launch success (since the rocket went up).
The intentional destruction of habitat and inherent danger to wildlife is simply criminal. The fact that SpaceX is not being held responsible is a dereliction of duty by the FAA, FWS & EPA. Boca Chica was a pristine corner of Texas. We would got to South Padre several times a year, but we have stopped going since Musk showed up.
All the Starship missions can be launched from Complex 39A. But the new Florida Starship launch pad, located right next to the Apollo Saturn launch pad at 39A, is grossly inadequate. It should be completely redesigned. Even better, construct a new launch complex for Starship. Call it "LC 39C." The current starship pad under construction is dangerously close to the Artemis launch pad. Build LC 39C several miles away, just in case there is a catastrophic explosion. There is plenty of real estate at KSC.
We have to factor in the multiple benefits that SpaceX provides to the US. International prestige. The Starlink system. The capability to quickly reconstitute our communication satellites in the event of international conflict. Pride of Hispanics who are working to build the incredible Boca facility.
My concern is SpaceX is being forced to gamble on the success of this single, huge advance in capability launch. SpaceX was advancing with close to a monthly cadence of test launches until the Biden admin took over. Would be better to first show that the super heavy booster can go up and return intact. Do that over and over, to increasing heights and with larger payloads.
if by meta narrative you mean larger picture, then absolutely regulatory shortcuts and the overlooking of environmental damage is justified. The world is increasingly dangerous. Would be interesting to know whether NASA and the Air Force went to bat for SpaceX against the wishes of the EPA and FWS. The success of SpaceX is a great benefit to the US. And Elon is playing it cool by giving the FAA all they asked for and not being critical of government functionaries in public.
I appreciate your concerns. I am a SpaceX fan, and read your Stack to get a broader picture of the impact of the launch site. I share some of your concerns. The deluge system/flame divert is bring built, which should mitigate some of the noise. Boca was always meant to be a development site, and they are now building a pad at 39. Let's trust that cooler heads prevail and the impact is limited. Thanks
The country needs more than one heavy lift space port. Expand Boca inland by opening up the national parkland in the area. 5 miles inland and it is probably a vast expanse of brush land and desert. If SpaceX does not have to be right on the coast to launch then blame environmentalists groups for not giving Elon access to inland fallow parkland.
No one cares about noise with all the cars and trucks with muffler and cat "delete" nobody cares the goal is to annoy people in a passive-aggressive way to spread hatred. Its destructive and attractive to people who want to destroy themselves and others
I believe it is described in this video as a deluge "spray." Not quite a deluge system and not sure there is any such thing as a deluge spray. More like just "spray."
Thank you for this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I take my kids all the time to Brownsville. My kids go to field trips there all the time too.
Now I fear for their safety. I don't think the Cameron County government and the Texas State government can be trusted from now on. If either of my kids get injured, or even die, because of their dangerous and irresponsible tests, it will be difficult for me to seek justice for them. This greed over human lives mentality needs to stop.
I'll trust NASA, but SpaceX and Tesla have both proven that they're not trustworthy. Hell, most corporations prove they're not trustworthy on the daily.
I think your kids are probably still safe, they do notify the public when doing something that could go "boom"
Thanks for the kind words
If there is a comforting news from yesterday's launch, SpaceX has a long way to go before they reengineer and launch the next vehicle from that launch pad. And they are certainly going to try to prevent a bomb drop experience as that might have been a factor in the mission failure. LabPadre reports that bowling ball size concrete chunks were flying far from launch site.
Sad. We expect our government to simply enforce laws that are there for the benefit of all only to see them ignore the duty and the harm that will be caused. Super frustrating. Also frustrating that the average American would have no idea of the issues you just presented let alone care.
It sickens me that so many still think fElon is a hero figure.
I came upon this informative analysis: https://www.space.com/every-spacex-starship-explosion-lessons-learned Somehow SpaceX seems to think catastrophic failure is the only sure way to success. My understanding of modern engineering is that we have reached a level of sophistication in analysis and simulation that we don't have to endure hundreds of catastrophic failures before getting a working design. You don't see dozens of aircraft crash before they start flying passengers on a new model of aircraft. Boeing 777 and Airbus 380 did not have a single hull loss accident. (The only B777 losses are by a suicidal pilot and missile hit).
I do find this argument fascinating but, in fairness to SpaceX, it seems like the Falcon 9 program really benefited from fast iteration that included some really bad failures along the way.
That said, some of the arguments I've seen justifying the decision to not use a deluge or trench system don't seem very honest given how much we do know about building suitable launch sites. Thanks for the comment
Complex space vehicle dynamics may be a difficult subject needing experimentation but impact of huge fire on concrete is something anyone can learn by talking to a few firefighters. It greatly diminishes my respect for their engineering if they can't understand what a giant hot fire, powerful hot gases exhausting at supersonic speeds can do to a block of concrete sitting still.
Like you predicted, the facility got basically destroyed today. The tanks are dented, rocks where thrown around and even concrete rained on the city nearby
I hate being right in this case, but yeah the absence of an energy suppression system was a big fail
I am somewhat mystified by all the talk of "this was a successful launch, because we can collect data" etc., When the launch pad looks like a Daisy Cutter bomb has been dropped on it, it is weird to call it a success. Even NASA administrator congratulated the launch success (since the rocket went up).
Just FYI: this article is earning you some fanbase on Mastodon, rightfully so: https://mstdn.social/@990000/110240888836409321
The intentional destruction of habitat and inherent danger to wildlife is simply criminal. The fact that SpaceX is not being held responsible is a dereliction of duty by the FAA, FWS & EPA. Boca Chica was a pristine corner of Texas. We would got to South Padre several times a year, but we have stopped going since Musk showed up.
All the Starship missions can be launched from Complex 39A. But the new Florida Starship launch pad, located right next to the Apollo Saturn launch pad at 39A, is grossly inadequate. It should be completely redesigned. Even better, construct a new launch complex for Starship. Call it "LC 39C." The current starship pad under construction is dangerously close to the Artemis launch pad. Build LC 39C several miles away, just in case there is a catastrophic explosion. There is plenty of real estate at KSC.
We have to factor in the multiple benefits that SpaceX provides to the US. International prestige. The Starlink system. The capability to quickly reconstitute our communication satellites in the event of international conflict. Pride of Hispanics who are working to build the incredible Boca facility.
My concern is SpaceX is being forced to gamble on the success of this single, huge advance in capability launch. SpaceX was advancing with close to a monthly cadence of test launches until the Biden admin took over. Would be better to first show that the super heavy booster can go up and return intact. Do that over and over, to increasing heights and with larger payloads.
how is that at all relevant to the discussion at hand? Regulatory shortcuts and poor risk disclosure aren't justified by some meta narrative.
Those are separate discussions I'm willing to have but it's not relevant
Thank you for sharing such important and detailed reporting.
if by meta narrative you mean larger picture, then absolutely regulatory shortcuts and the overlooking of environmental damage is justified. The world is increasingly dangerous. Would be interesting to know whether NASA and the Air Force went to bat for SpaceX against the wishes of the EPA and FWS. The success of SpaceX is a great benefit to the US. And Elon is playing it cool by giving the FAA all they asked for and not being critical of government functionaries in public.
clown
I appreciate your concerns. I am a SpaceX fan, and read your Stack to get a broader picture of the impact of the launch site. I share some of your concerns. The deluge system/flame divert is bring built, which should mitigate some of the noise. Boca was always meant to be a development site, and they are now building a pad at 39. Let's trust that cooler heads prevail and the impact is limited. Thanks
The country needs more than one heavy lift space port. Expand Boca inland by opening up the national parkland in the area. 5 miles inland and it is probably a vast expanse of brush land and desert. If SpaceX does not have to be right on the coast to launch then blame environmentalists groups for not giving Elon access to inland fallow parkland.
Steve, shoot me an email if you wanna discuss further. Rather not these comment sections turn into this again
clown
Unbelievable
No one cares about noise with all the cars and trucks with muffler and cat "delete" nobody cares the goal is to annoy people in a passive-aggressive way to spread hatred. Its destructive and attractive to people who want to destroy themselves and others
This video shows there is a Deluge System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqBYJd56Ko&ab_channel=NASASpaceflight
I believe it is described in this video as a deluge "spray." Not quite a deluge system and not sure there is any such thing as a deluge spray. More like just "spray."